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Wildcat Dude Admin Group

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| Posted: 02/20/2009 at 10:12am | IP Logged
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Quote:
| I've done the search and found a few posts about underskinning but I was wondering if you have to run it all the way down the bottom of the boat. I've noticed that the only splash I get is maybe the front third of the boat. Anyone here done it? |
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This question comes up at least every two months and we've got lots of topics with replies regarding it. Try reviewing the search of the forums regarding underskinning just click the link, then review each one. But a short answer is I would probably (as I will eventually) do it from front to back, leaving a inch opening on either side next to the toons for drainage (don't want the water trapped).
Edited by Wildcat Dude on 06/19/2010 at 12:55am
__________________ Charles - TN
93 Voyager 20ft
84 Johnson 115HP
68-77 USAF SP-K9 Vietnam 69 & 70
Retired Detective 94
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rickdb1 Admin Group


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| Posted: 02/20/2009 at 10:46am | IP Logged
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You really need to do the whole thing. You'd be surprised at the amount of water that hits toward the stern, since it sits lower in the water. Probably the best investment I've made in my toon yet. Much smoother ride and it has to lengthen the life of the deck..


Edited by rickdb1 on 02/20/2009 at 10:48am
__________________ Rick
2007 Bentley 200 Cruise
Merc. 90 HP 4 stroke
Mo.
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Wildcat Dude Admin Group

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| Posted: 02/20/2009 at 10:52am | IP Logged
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Rick, I just noticed on yours, on the side, it appears you have panels there, can you elaborate on how yours is done? Others may want to know too and I may do mine that way. Oh and thanks for reposting that youtube video of the effects, I didn't find it right away and it really highlights the benefits of underskinning.
Edited by Wildcat Dude on 02/20/2009 at 10:53am
__________________ Charles - TN
93 Voyager 20ft
84 Johnson 115HP
68-77 USAF SP-K9 Vietnam 69 & 70
Retired Detective 94
www.ezacdc.com (for wiring)
www.backtoboating.com (good stuff)
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CGbosun Senior Member

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| Posted: 02/20/2009 at 11:29am | IP Logged
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My Playcraft is underskinned. I am intimate with its installation since a large section came loose and dragged under the boat while backing out of the slip - ouch!!!
The sheets are attached to the crossmembers using SS pop rivets. The sheets are creases to fold down at a 45 dgree angle near each outer edge to lay snugly against the side of the U-shaped pontoons, leaving an opening at each end. The skin runs full-length fore and aft. My boat is very stern-heavy with a separate engine pod, upper sundeck and 2 big gas tanks in the stern so teh skin needs to go all the way back. I'll try to get a picture or two this weekend.
Edited by CGbosun on 02/20/2009 at 11:31am
__________________ CGbosun
31' Playcraft 5.0 I/O
Catfish Heaven, VA
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rickdb1 Admin Group


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| Posted: 02/20/2009 at 11:38am | IP Logged
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I took some of the leftover sheeting and just cut some pieces for the sides. Just screwed them in to the tube brackets. Don't really know if this step was necessary, but it seemed like the right thing to do. Good thing is, if I need to get to the wiring or steering cable (which is all above the starboard log), I have easy access by just unscrewing a few screws on the sides.
Without sides:

Edited by rickdb1 on 02/20/2009 at 12:07pm
__________________ Rick
2007 Bentley 200 Cruise
Merc. 90 HP 4 stroke
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rickdb1 Admin Group


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| Posted: 02/20/2009 at 12:06pm | IP Logged
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And these are the screws I used..
http://www.teksupply.com/farm/supplies/prod1;ts1_hardware_fa steners_2;1f5bb38c.html
__________________ Rick
2007 Bentley 200 Cruise
Merc. 90 HP 4 stroke
Mo.
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eaglase Senior Member

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| Posted: 02/20/2009 at 12:21pm | IP Logged
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GSBosun.... I have PC as well and noticed this the other day.... was thinking extending the underskin all the way to the front... your thoughts?????
I will post pic of my underside ( of the boat ) lol... and see if its the same
what year is your boat and did you have pic of it??? always curious for pics of other PC boats
Edited by eaglase on 02/20/2009 at 12:23pm
__________________ Earl, Topeka, KS
1986 28' Playcraft
95 4.3LV6 OMC 195HP
2000 Ford Expedition XLT
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judgepw Senior Member

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| Posted: 02/20/2009 at 1:19pm | IP Logged
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Rick,
I can't install my own underskinning(for several different reasons). Where would you go to get it done? A sheet metal shop or a boat repair shop? Air conditioning shop? I don't have a clue. I've never dealt with sheet metal before.
__________________ judgepw
"AttaBoy Award" May & July 2008
20' Sundancer 2002,90hp Honda 4s
Covered lift
Houston/Lake Conroe, Texas
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Wildcat Dude Admin Group

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| Posted: 02/20/2009 at 1:39pm | IP Logged
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I sure wouldn't go to a boat repair shop, but the other two mentioned I'd get a quote from. I'm almost in your position, I can't work over my head as my arms will give out in just a few minutes, so thinking of making a small wood form that I could lay the panels on and get it close to the supports to get a few screws started as I'll be doing it by myself.
__________________ Charles - TN
93 Voyager 20ft
84 Johnson 115HP
68-77 USAF SP-K9 Vietnam 69 & 70
Retired Detective 94
www.ezacdc.com (for wiring)
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rickdb1 Admin Group


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| Posted: 02/20/2009 at 1:40pm | IP Logged
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I would call around to smaller independent boat repair shops and see what they say. I'd say most of the larger shops would not do it. The aluminum is not cheap and I'm sure labor would be high. I would say it took me a good 8 hours over 2 days working on it. But I was by myself. A helper would have sped things up considerably. Aluminum for my 20er was about $450.00 and about $40 for the screws. When I bought the boat, they wanted $700 installed. Looked back, it was a pretty good deal and I began to realize that as I was crunched under the boat holding up those sheets of aluminum. If you could get it installed (labor only) for 2-3 hundred, I'd say it's a good deal.
__________________ Rick
2007 Bentley 200 Cruise
Merc. 90 HP 4 stroke
Mo.
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rickdb1 Admin Group


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| Posted: 02/20/2009 at 1:46pm | IP Logged
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You could buy it from a sheet metal shop or possibly an HVAC contractor, but you'd have to have LOTS of beer on hand to get them to install it..
__________________ Rick
2007 Bentley 200 Cruise
Merc. 90 HP 4 stroke
Mo.
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floridatoon Senior Member

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| Posted: 02/20/2009 at 5:35pm | IP Logged
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If you know some automotive mechanic or oil change place that have the underground pit that you drive over you would not have to bend down. Rick, what guage aluminum did you use and could you have used a thinner guage?
__________________ Floridatoon
*AttaBoy Award July 2010*
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22' Fiesta w/115 Yamaha
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Wildcat Dude Admin Group

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| Posted: 02/20/2009 at 6:11pm | IP Logged
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Good points Frank, thanks for asking that. 
__________________ Charles - TN
93 Voyager 20ft
84 Johnson 115HP
68-77 USAF SP-K9 Vietnam 69 & 70
Retired Detective 94
www.ezacdc.com (for wiring)
www.backtoboating.com (good stuff)
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rickdb1 Admin Group


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| Posted: 02/20/2009 at 7:47pm | IP Logged
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I used .063 5052 aluminum. I guess you could go smaller, but that seemed to be the thickness everyone was recommending. I wouldn't go too much thinner, as they may buckle from the force of the water slamming into them. Mine has about 100 hours on it in rough water and they are still as straight as when I put them on. The narrow side panels have buckled a bit, but nothing significant. Also, I haven't had one screw back out. I did use blue loctite on them though. Talk about tedious...
__________________ Rick
2007 Bentley 200 Cruise
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Mo.
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Wildcat Dude Admin Group

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| Posted: 02/20/2009 at 7:51pm | IP Logged
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If I remember right, you pre-drilled the holes didn't you? Going to make this a sticky topic somewhere when we get done with all the questions. Rebuild area is a little too full of stickies. If anyone has suggestions where to put it, or even say the rebuild area as it does makes sense to added underskinning during the rebuild process, or anytime thereafter.
__________________ Charles - TN
93 Voyager 20ft
84 Johnson 115HP
68-77 USAF SP-K9 Vietnam 69 & 70
Retired Detective 94
www.ezacdc.com (for wiring)
www.backtoboating.com (good stuff)
www.boatingseats.com (seats)
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rickdb1 Admin Group


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| Posted: 02/20/2009 at 8:22pm | IP Logged
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Yes, I did predrill the screw holes. Did that with my regular cordless and then ran them in with the hammer drill. I had cut several 2 X 4''s to the proper length to help hold the sheets up while drilling and screwing them in. I think it would be ideal if you had 3 guys working on it to not only hold the sheets up, but to either pre-drill or run screws. Arms get tired in a hurry..
__________________ Rick
2007 Bentley 200 Cruise
Merc. 90 HP 4 stroke
Mo.
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judgepw Senior Member

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| Posted: 02/21/2009 at 12:57am | IP Logged
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Thanks a lot. That's exactly the kind of ino I needed. I've got a couple of strong backs I can hire pretty cheap. Cutting will be my only problem when fitting around the transom box. Will electric or air driven nibblers work on .063 5052? How about a good jigsaw with a hacksaw blade?
Edited by judgepw on 02/21/2009 at 1:02am
__________________ judgepw
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mdlpoker Senior Member

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| Posted: 02/21/2009 at 9:36am | IP Logged
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Greetings from Texas, where 25-40 mile an hour wind gusts have suggested to me that 'the Floating Backyard' is best left in the slip today. Question about underskinning: I see a lot of info about how it smooths the ride, but I am curious what the extra weight might do to the speed of the boat. We have a 25 ft Crest with a 90 HP Johnson and even with 7-8 people on board we can ski / wakeboard off it. If the speed were to be so cut down so that that could not be done, there would be mutiny and then a hanging (this is Texas after all)!
Any input would be appreciated!
__________________ Mark
2000 Crest 25' Family Fisherman
Johnson 90 HP
Enjoyed at Grapevine Lake, TX
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rickdb1 Admin Group


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| Posted: 02/21/2009 at 4:06pm | IP Logged
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The underskin on mine weighs about 200#. Since the weight is spread out over the entire boat, it doesn't seem to affect it at all. If anything I've seen an increase in performance just because there is no more hesitation from the waves hitting the crossmembers. Big difference in the way it rides in rougher water..
__________________ Rick
2007 Bentley 200 Cruise
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Mo.
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floridatoon Senior Member

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| Posted: 02/21/2009 at 5:18pm | IP Logged
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Rick,
If you had overlapped the plates an inch from back to front would that have saved drilling and screwing holes to half? Also with the buckling of the side plates if the plates were an inch wider and had the inch bent 90 degrees would it help from buckling?
__________________ Floridatoon
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rickdb1 Admin Group


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| Posted: 02/21/2009 at 6:12pm | IP Logged
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They are overlapped a inch. I simply drilled through both sheets and shot the screws in. But I also put a screw on the single side too. I did double up screws all the way down on the crossmembers, but I only wanted to do this once and the screws are cheap enough. And yes a 90 degree bend would have stiffened the sides up, but I didn't have a sheet metal break at home and it's some pretty stiff stuff to bend by hand. Plus I had just enough metal left over to do what I did.

__________________ Rick
2007 Bentley 200 Cruise
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Bamby Senior Member

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| Posted: 02/21/2009 at 6:19pm | IP Logged
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Looks real nice there Rick. When we ordered the ours we opted to purchase the underskin package from the factory. They applied it a lot like Ricks but for a few differences. As you observed floridatoon they applied from the back forward and overlapped at cross members apx. 1in. and fastened both. Also they radiused the pannels down to end against the toons just like Ricks. It's really neat to lay on the front of the boat and watch the amount of water rolls off the skin and down the toons. Don't know if a person could bend it at home like that, but it does seem to be a nice sturdy way of doing it. Gregg
__________________ 2004 2503 Odyssey
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CGbosun Senior Member

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| Posted: 02/23/2009 at 1:04pm | IP Logged
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eaglase;
My toon is a 1993 model, prior to the fire at the plant in '95 that destroyed all previous records (of course). The underskin is factory original. The skin begins at the second crossmemember back from the bow. That does not seem to affect anything, since the spray rails on both toons keep the water off that area.
Working on the pictures since she's back in the drink again - yay! just got to get that engine fixed!!
Edited by Wildcat Dude on 02/23/2009 at 1:15pm
__________________ CGbosun
31' Playcraft 5.0 I/O
Catfish Heaven, VA
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eaglase Senior Member

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CGbosun,
thats interesting.... I wonder if mine are factory.... i will post a pick of where they start and how they run... I think that mine start at the 3rd crossmember, but will have to check....
anyhow... I was wondering if the udnerskin would protect from the spray and I can use other pressure treated plywood for the floor... no matter for the replacement later... i wonder....
__________________ Earl, Topeka, KS
1986 28' Playcraft
95 4.3LV6 OMC 195HP
2000 Ford Expedition XLT
95 HaulRite Dual axle trlr
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Wildcat Dude Admin Group

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| Posted: 03/10/2009 at 2:39pm | IP Logged
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Think about it for a minute, if pontoon manufacturers thought that was a good idea, they would do it wouldn't they? I thought we talked about why you wouldn't want to use it for your floor (corrosive effects on your metal). Its fine for seats, walls and such, not not to lay against your crossmembers and such.
__________________ Charles - TN
93 Voyager 20ft
84 Johnson 115HP
68-77 USAF SP-K9 Vietnam 69 & 70
Retired Detective 94
www.ezacdc.com (for wiring)
www.backtoboating.com (good stuff)
www.boatingseats.com (seats)
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kartracer28 Senior Member

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| Posted: 03/21/2009 at 3:20pm | IP Logged
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After reading about the underskinning what is the best thickness of aluminum to use, may have missed this in one of the post. Thanks Ronney
__________________ Houma Louisiana "Home Of The 2010 Cajun Toon Gathering"
1994 Monitou 24Ft WHAT'S NEXT
Yam 115 4 Stroke
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Wildcat Dude Admin Group

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| Posted: 03/21/2009 at 3:37pm | IP Logged
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.063' 5052 aluminum. The 5052 grade is for marine use, it resists corrosion the best. quote I found in an old post.
__________________ Charles - TN
93 Voyager 20ft
84 Johnson 115HP
68-77 USAF SP-K9 Vietnam 69 & 70
Retired Detective 94
www.ezacdc.com (for wiring)
www.backtoboating.com (good stuff)
www.boatingseats.com (seats)
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kartracer28 Senior Member

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| Posted: 03/21/2009 at 4:49pm | IP Logged
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WOW!!!! would have never thought that thick
__________________ Houma Louisiana "Home Of The 2010 Cajun Toon Gathering"
1994 Monitou 24Ft WHAT'S NEXT
Yam 115 4 Stroke
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Wildcat Dude Admin Group

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| Posted: 03/21/2009 at 5:44pm | IP Logged
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Does seem thick doesn't it. Darren, Rick, what did you guys use? Anybody else?
__________________ Charles - TN
93 Voyager 20ft
84 Johnson 115HP
68-77 USAF SP-K9 Vietnam 69 & 70
Retired Detective 94
www.ezacdc.com (for wiring)
www.backtoboating.com (good stuff)
www.boatingseats.com (seats)
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rickdb1 Admin Group


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| Posted: 03/21/2009 at 7:36pm | IP Logged
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I used .063. It's 1/16 inch thick.
__________________ Rick
2007 Bentley 200 Cruise
Merc. 90 HP 4 stroke
Mo.
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